So many churches are stuck just under the 200 barrier. It seems it's the hardest transition in congregational dynamics to navigate.

Senior Minister of Toongabbie Anglican Church, Raj Gupta joins Dominic Steele, to talk through the challenges, mistakes and strategies in managing this transition.

Raj says a key issue is 'the locus of relational connectedness' or what structures people look for relationships.

He says as leaders, we need to reverse engineer the characteristics of the next level into your church size.

To download Raj's thesis, click here. 

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